Festival of Books: Science writers debate -- Is there a morality gene?

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Los Angeles Times Publisher Austin Beutner, right, is joined by USC President C.L. Max Nikias for the official kickoff of the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on Saturday morning. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Los Angeles Times Publisher Austin Beutner, right, presents USC President C.L. Max Nikias with a commemorative photo during the kickoff of the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the USC campus. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Los Angeles Times Publisher Austin Beutner and USC President C.L. Max Nikias, along with the USC band, cheerleaders and mascot, open the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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LeVar Burton accepts the Innovators Award during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015 in Los Angeles, Calif.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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LeVar Burton accepts the Innovators Award during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015 in Los Angeles, Calif.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Claudia Rankine accepts the Poetry Award during theLos Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015 in Los Angeles, Calif.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Tom Bouma accepts the award for Mystery/Thriller during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015, in Los Angeles, Calif.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Jaime Hernandez accepts the award for Graphic Novel/Comic during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015, in Los Angeles, Calif.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Jeff Hobbs accepts the award for Current Interest during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes awards at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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T. C Boyle accepts the Robert Kirsch Award during the Los Angeles Times Book Prizes at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Valeria Luiselli accepts the award for First Fiction during the L.A. Times Book Prizes at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Candice Fleming accepts the award for Young Adult Literature during the L.A. Times Book Prizes at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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The USC Trojan Marching Band performs during the kickoff of the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the USC campus. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Festival attendees write what they are reading on a giant banner at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books, on the campus of USC.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Young festival attendees write about the books they are reading on a giant banner at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books, on the campus of USC.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Festival attendees look at books in the Book Soup booth at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books, on the campus of USC.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Festival attendees walk past some of the many booths at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books, on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Robert D. Putnam, speaks as fellow author Matt Taibbi laughs during the panel “America’s Rich and Poor: Looking at the Financial Gap” at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Edward Kleinbard, center, of USC, speaks during the panel “America’s Rich and Poor: Looking at the Financial Gap” at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. To the left is Los Angeles Times columnist Steve Lopez, the panel moderator, and to the right is Robert D. Putnam of Harvard.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Matt Taibbi, right, whose latest book is “The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap,” speaks during a festival panel.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Brian Grazer, author of “A Curious Mind,” with Rebecca Keegan, jokes about meeting Fidel Castro in Cuba during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC. (Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Brian Grazer, author of “A Curious Mind,” speaks at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC. (Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Billy Idol, author of “Dancing with Myself,” speaks on the Los Angeles Times stage, as he is interviewed by Times writer Lorraine Ali at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Billy Idol, author of “Dancing with Myself,” speaks at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Times writer Lorraine Ali speaks during an interview at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Billy Idol, author of “Dancing with Myself,” performs a song after speaking about his book at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the USC campus. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Festival attendees listen to the Billy Idol interview at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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The TSA Chorus performs on the travel stage at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC. (Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Cliff Stein fills in an answer on a giant crossword puzzle at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Pamela Ribon, Issa Rae, moderator Ann Friedman and Mallory Ortberg speak on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Mallory Ortberg speaks on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Issa Rae laughs while speaking on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Moderator Ann Friedman smiles while listening on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Pamela Ribon speaks on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Audience members laugh as Pamela Ribon, Issa Rae, moderator Ann Friedman and Mallory Ortberg speak on the Writing With a Smirk: Women and Humor panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Tavis Smiley, author of “My Journey with Maya,” speaks on the Los Angeles Times stage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Tavis Smiley, author of “My Journey with Maya,” speaks on the Los Angeles Times stage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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YA author Robyn Schneider speaks on the Connections and Consequences panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Attendees laugh during the young adult fiction Connections and Consequences panel at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Young adult fiction author Sarah Dessen speaks on the Connections and Consequences panel at the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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YA writer Emery Lord, center, takes part in the Connections and Consequences panel.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Amy Spalding moderates the Connections and Consequences panel of YA authors.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Author Emery Lord speaks on the Connections and Consequences panel.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Novelist Meg Wolitzer, whose most recent books are “The Interestings” and the YA book “Belzhar,” speaks on the Connections and Consequences panel.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Moderator Amy Spalding, Sarah Dessen, Emery Lord, Robyn Schneider and Meg Wolitzer take part in the Connections and Consequences YA panel.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Los Angeles Times photographer Jay L. Clendenin speaks about photographing celebrities.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Adam Lipman stocks the shelves at the Small World Books and WW Norton booth at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Keegan Allen, author of “life.love.beauty.,” is interviewed by the Times’ Yvonne Villarreal on the Los Angeles Times stage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Keegan Allen, author of “life.love.beauty.,” is interviewed at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Times reporter Yvonne Villarreal onstage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Patton Oswalt speaks during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Patton Oswalt, author of “Silver Screen Fiend,” and Wayne Federman share a stage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Wayne Federman speaks during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Patton Oswalt and Wayne Federman speak at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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T.C. Boyle, author of “The Harder They Come,” speaks at USC’s Ronald Tutor Campus Center during the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Author T.C. Boyle, right, speaks with David L. Ulin, the Los Angeles Times’ book critic.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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David L. Ulin, the Los Angeles Times’ book critic, left, speaks with author T.C. Boyle.

(Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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People browse the shelves at the Skylight Books booth at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Jose Antonio Vargas, Michelangelo Signorile, moderator Karen Grigsby Bates and Erin Aubry Kaplan speak on the Human Rights and Social Justice panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Jose Antonio Vargas holds up his California driver’s license while speaking on the Human Rights and Social Justice panels during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Moderator Karen Grigsby Bates speaks on the Human Rights and Social Justice panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Michelangelo Signorile speaks on the Human Rights and Social Justice panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Erin Aubry Kaplan speaks on the Human Rights and Social Justice panel during the 20th Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at USC on Saturday, April 18, 2015.

(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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(Patrick T. Fallon / For The Times)

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Festival attendees watch as the USC Trojan Marching Band performs during the kickoff of the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Maria Bello, author of “Whatever ... Love Is Love: Questioning the Labels We Give Ourselves,” left, is interviewed by Times columnist Sandy Banks on the Los Angeles Times stage. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Author Maria Bello is interviewed on the Los Angeles Times stage at the L.A. Times Festival of Books. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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LOS ANGELES, CA - April 18, 2015: Sandy Banks, a California columnist for the L.A. Times, interviews Maria Bello, author of “Whatever Love Is Love: Questioning the Labels We Give Ourselves, ” not pictured, on the Los Angeles Times stage at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Saturday is the first day of the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books on the campus of USC in Los Angeles. This is the 20th year of the festival. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Before the festival opens, Julia Patrick works to set up the Chronicle Books booth. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

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Before the festival opens, Nicole White sets up books in the Pages Bookstore and Penguin Young Readers booth. (Katie Falkenberg / Los Angeles Times)

By Sarah Parvini

April 19, 2015 8:30 AM PT

If there’s no God, would a moral society exist?

Michael Shermer thinks so.

The moral sense of right and wrong far predates religion, the founder of Skeptic magazine said during a Saturday panel on science and identity at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books.

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Even primates have a moral compass, Shermer added.

Religion puts things that seemed obvious into context, he argued, such as the Golden Rule (in essence, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”).

If religion was at the heart of morality, Shermer asked, why did religious texts leave out key rules?

“Why didn’t the Bible get rid of slavery?” he asked. “There’s nothing about raping. In fact, rape is one of the great benefits of leaders in the Old Testament.”

Science writer Jennifer Ouellette had a similar idea. Behaviors are not traits, she said. We all have a set of genes, but multiple factors affect behavior, such as social influences.

Asked about whether there is a “morality gene” or whether there would be morality without religion, Ouellete said all of these things -- genetics, social influence, environment -- “work together to determine … certain kinds of behavioral patterns.”

Shermer was a bit more blunt.

There is no morality gene, because we have “different behaviors in response to social contacts,” he said. There’s an inherent instinct related to moral behavior.

“The culture you’re raised in tells what you should feel guilty about,” Shermer said. “But why is there a sense of guilt? Of jealousy? That’s where the evolutionary model comes in.”

Emotions are proxies for something else, he explained, the same way hunger triggers people to eat.

“The gene doesn’t matter,” he said. “The idea is that we are born with these things -- they’re not plopped down from a supernatural law giver.”

Check out the Festival of Books schedule for this weekend.

MORE FROM THE FESTIVAL OF BOOKS:

How authors tackle truthfulness in memoirs

T.C. Boyle, on his newest novel about gun violence

Tavis Smiley’s travels with his mentor, Maya Angelou

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